Comments on Progression of Faith: Emerging Atheism

Samuel,I'm not a gnostic theist. I don't value the...

2008-04-30T19:58:00.000-05:00

Samuel,

I'm not a gnostic theist. I don't value the belief in anything that cannot be proven. I accept our collective best reasoning, not superstition. Gnostics tend to lean heavily on superstition over reason. I'm not superstitious. A theist is someone that believes there is an intelligent being made of something physical (matter) and somehow created the universe. I have no confidence in that definition. I can't prove or disprove it. It seems improbable. If somebody can prove it, then I'll accept it.

I'm not an atheist because I also don't define myself based on my unbelief. Belief in unproven things is silly and unbelief in silly things is redundant.
Both are void of value. Neither are focused on reality.

The real question we should ask is not what we believe that can or can't be proven, but what we want to collectively make the world into.

I define my faith based on non-violent protest against the values assoiciated with imperialism (greed, violence, oppression, bigotry, etc). I see that as 100% inline with the message of both the Old and New testament. I have faith we could make something better if we get passed the silly belief and also angry attacks on silly beliefs. There is ample EVIDENCE that non-violence can lead to progress much better than perpetual war. I make my faith decisions based on evidence not childish beliefs in the unknown.

Lastly, I refuse to define God because I can't define it for every culture. That definition is relative to each culture.

So Samuel, what do you want to see the world and human society become?

Samuel SkinnerFirst of, the first line is my name,...

2008-04-30T17:29:00.000-05:00

Samuel Skinner
First of, the first line is my name, not a quote or anything. Sorry if it is confusing.

A weak atheist is one who doesn't believe in God. You don't believe in God. You are open to the possibility, but you don't believe. Hence you are a weak atheist.

Dreams exist inside a persons mind.
Goals have no physical existence.
Ideals do not have a physical existence- they do have physical representations though.
Memories exist as physical structure inside your brain. Which is the reason why our skulls are think- to protect the brain.
Emotions exist. They are also inside the brain.

Wait- you believe God exists? Okay- previous statements were confusing.

Almost no one believes that God is a human guy living in outer space- even though that works great for the Old Testament.
Wait... your "belief has nothing to do with my ability to define God correctly... everything to do with the possibilities for humanity"

Would you please be clear? How can you have faith in humanities future? Doesn't evidence work so much better?

I'm going to take it your are gnostic theist. You believe in God, but you refuse to define the term in any way... which makes it up for debate if you are a Christian or not.

I am a strong atheist and an ideological antitheist. And before you ask, strong atheists have the burden of proof and antitheists can commit crimes in the name of antitheism.

Anonymous,A weak atheist? I wonder if you suggest...

2008-04-30T09:17:00.000-05:00

Anonymous,

A weak atheist? I wonder if you suggest that because you are only able to imagine one image of what God might be. It seems like you've trapped your reasoning skills in a very small box just like religious fundamentalists.

Do dreams exist? Do goals exists? Do ideals exist? Do memories exist? Do emotions exist?

I firmly believe that God exists, but I don't limit its existence to being a human-like gendered being living in outer space. My beliefs and my faith have nothing to do with my ability to define God correctly. It has everything to do with the possibilities for humanity. I have a strong belief in those possibilities.

Are you an atheist?

Samuel SkinnerSo you are an weak atheist- you lack...

2008-04-30T01:51:00.000-05:00

Samuel Skinner
So you are an weak atheist- you lack a belief in God.

This looks like a great book. Thanks Mike!

2008-04-29T17:02:00.000-05:00

This looks like a great book. Thanks Mike!

Anonymous,You are correct. I agree with your defi...

2008-04-29T13:56:00.000-05:00

Anonymous,

You are correct. I agree with your definition in the context of God's existence, but it is not the context of my post or this site. I don't believe God "exists" if existence means being a "being".

I didn't suggest you "screwed up the definition". I simply mean that you made some assumptions about what I mean by faith and that made you answer the "wrong" question. I'm not discussing the existence of God so "belief" is not part of the equation. I'm discussing faith, which for me is following a life of non-violence, justice, peace and forgiveness. In those things I have much faith. As for what God is, I have no firm belief, only a set of inspiring myths that direct me toward a life of non-violence, justice, peace and forgiveness. I have faith that those myths, sound reason, and a loving community can lead me there.

Thanks for the dialogue!

Samuel SkinnerAlthough it is true that faith also ...

2008-04-29T13:16:00.000-05:00

Samuel Skinner
Although it is true that faith also has those definitions, non of those are relevant to the existence of God.

All the other uses of faith are for things that we can see, hear, otherwise experience, know to exist, etc.

Only in God's case does it mean ignoring the evidence. You can't trust God before you know he exists!

So no, I didn't screw up the definition. When some atheists say they have no faith and so they don't believe in God, they aren't refering to the trust definition- they are refering to the evidence one. THAT is the one that matters when people argue about God's existence.

Anonymous,That is a common viewpoint, but I feel i...

2008-04-29T12:34:00.000-05:00

Anonymous,

That is a common viewpoint, but I feel it is too narrow. The word faith has many connotations. You've captured only one. Faith is not exclusively the belief in something that is unproven. For some fundamentalists, that is what faith means. However, faith can also mean hope, trust, fidelity, allegiance.

Faith can mean having hope that a better way of being is possible. Faith can mean allegiance to one particular plan for progress. Faith can mean trust that the plan you've chosen will work. The idea that faith is "belief in unbelievable things" is a very modern product. I think you’ve mistaken faith with superstition. You’ve made the same mistake that fundamentalist religious zealots make. A faithful supporter of Barack Obama may say they "believe in him". But they don’t mean that they intend to ignore reason in favor of superstition. They mean that they trust his policies, hope his message can help us, and have allegiance to his campaign.

If faith meant rejecting evidence, then I wouldn't be a person of faith. I'd choose evidence every time.

Samuel SkinnerNot going to happen. Faith, by defin...

2008-04-29T11:28:00.000-05:00

Samuel Skinner
Not going to happen. Faith, by definition is a rejection of evidence, which is unreasonable.

sounds like a great book. i have a small fetish w...

2008-04-29T10:31:00.000-05:00

sounds like a great book. i have a small fetish with reading the New Atheist books. i agree that they have some real misunderstandings of religion and some real deep criticisms we should take seriously. the second agreement should matter more to christians and we should work at getting an....emerging post-atheism or a New Theism.

stay fresh