Thursday, June 14, 2007
Religion vs. Gospel
Recently, my friend ReverendRockStar posted a link to Mark Driscoll’s comparison between Religion and Gospel here. I like the comparison, but I thought it would be interesting to think about that same comparision without the baggage of a fundamentalist theological framework that deifies and worships Jesus so much that his actual message is lost.
Here is my more progressive comparison which is a bit different:
- Religion defines rules that must be obeyed but can never be obtained. Gospel defines hope for a life that is in reach.
- Religion draws lines to separate “us” from “them”. Gospel is the good news that community is available for everyone.
- Religion values tradition. Gospel values transformation.
- Religion claims justice through santification and belief in our own set of doctrines. Gospel creates justice for all regardless of beliefs.
- Religion has the goal of gaining God’s favor. Gospel has the goal of favoring people who have rarely been favored.
- Religion sees hardships as divine punishment and prosperity as divine reward. Gospel seeks to eliminate hardships and grant prosperity.
- Religion is about a greater sense of self. Gospel is about a greater sense of community.
- Religion seeks to formulate behavior. Gospel seeks to transform character.
- Religion imagines a God that judges us. Gospel imagines a process that changes us.
- Religion looks for God in deified messengers. Gospel observes the kingdom of God which is within us.
- Religion worships sacred texts. Gospel worships the sacred in life.
- Religion competes to declare its own ideas as divine truth. Gospel celebrates truth wherever it exists.
- Religion spreads guilt and failure. Gospel spreads hope and promise.
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23 comments:
Wonderful list!
Theologian Paul Tillich once said: "tell me what kind of God you don't believe in, and chances are, I won't believe in that kind of God also."
I have much the same response to your kind of "religion"!
That said, clearly it does illustrate how such words can carry very different meanings for each of us.
Dr. Feelgood said:
I thought it would be interesting to think about that same comparision without the baggage of a fundamentalist theological framework that deifies and worships Jesus so much that his actual message is lost.
Huh?
Without Jesus, what's there to think about?
Without Jesus, there is no "gospel."
r. radewicz,
The answer to your question is... The kingdom of God. It is what Jesus was most passionate about! If we worship Jesus but forget about his passion (the kingdom) then we've lost Jesus. When traditional Christianity focuses its efforts on the worship of Jesus it discards his passion in place for a placebo against an imagined need for salvation in an imagined state of afterlife.
Mike, Mike, Mike...
That's a very "American" comment...seeing Jesus as a means to an end. And I would disagree with you- although Jesus was passionate about the Kingdom, He also frequently expressed His passion for glorifying His heavenly Father, doing His will, etc. Remember, without the King, there IS no Kingdom!
RevRockStar,
That really doesn't make sense. I'm speaking AGAINST the american or westernized concept of Jesus. And when Jesus "frequently expressed His passion for glorifying His heavenly Father, doing His will, etc." then he was definatley talking about the "kingdom of god". Doing God's will on earth is EXACTLY what the kingdom of God is all about. It is building our "kingdom" (governing, economics, community, public and private life) as if God was king NOT earthly systems of domination. I've consistently been speaking out against the American ideals of commercialism, empire, corporate greed, and institutional religion. If God were king then God wouldn't demand worship. You might want to be worshipped if you were king, but that is not the character of the God that Jesus tells us about.
There are enough differences in our views that you should find ammunition by targeting what I say. You don't have to make things up or twist my words into something I didn't say. That is hitting below the belt.
Traditional Christianity is the group that uses Jesus as a means to an end (i.e. belief in Jesus = salvation in afterlife). I'm not sure how you twisted my words into meaning the downside of your own theology. I'll need some clarification on your point.
Mike-
I wasn't trying to twist your words around! Apologies- my reply was not intended to be a "below the belt" attack! I just misunderstood (again, the limitations of words...)
My fear about a strictly kingdom-focused theology (the same with strict fundamentalism and a lot of traditionalist-view) is that the relationship with God becomes performance-driven; do's and don'ts for the approval of God. You and I may be saying the same thing here (just in different ways).
Jesus DOES talk a lot about the Kingdom (last Fall, I taughts a 10-week series on the Sermon on the Mount; it's all about the Kingdom!) However, I think the point Jesus was making is that He is a different kind of King with a different kind of Kingdom.
The word "gospel" plainly means "good news for the kingdom." The gospel is that the Kingdom is not based on who we are and what we do, but who Christ is and what He's done. We have the benefit of living in the Kingdom He describes. Is it automatic? No. It does require effort on our part. However, our effort does not earn us citizenship in His Kingdom. He accepts us in, then we change and grow while in the Kingdom.
In the Sermon on the Mount, many misunderstood His teaching as a new set of rules to do in order to be accepted in the Kingdom. I believe Jesus was teaching the characteristics of the Kingdom that are exhibited when one is in close relationship with the King.
Rev-
Seems like you've contridicted yourself here
"The gospel is that the Kingdom is not based on who we are and what we do, but who Christ is and what He's done. We have the benefit of living in the Kingdom He describes. Is it automatic? No. It does require effort on our part. "
You say the kingdom is NOT based on what we do, then turn around and say it isn't automatic, it requires work on our part. Which is it work or no work on our part? Sounds very "old covenant" to me.
Nice, Mike.
Hey guys,
The only thing that Jesus preached/proclaimed was about the Kingdom of God!
Stop reducing Jesus to a religious leader; He is a King. He came to establish his Kingdom on earth (Isa 9:6) and the Father gave him name above all names (Php 2:9-10), even above the Jehovah’s.
Maurys,
you said: "Stop reducing Jesus to a religious leader; He is a King"
Literally a King? Where is he doing this "kinging" from? Does he have a literal crown, a literal thrown?
No, Jesus is actually a lamb. It is spring time and his wool will be harvested soon.
You've taken a powerful metaphor and reduced it to silliness by taking it literally the way I just did with the metaphor "lamb".
By the way, for ancient people kings WERE religious leaders. They were one and the same. There was no divide between temple and state.
Good morning Mike,
So I guess you believe in God but you do not believe God.
This what he says: Rev. 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Jesus never came to establish a religion as you can see here:
Matthew 4:17From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."
The only message he preached was about the Kingdom.
Luke 4:43 but He said to them, “I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent.”
Now what is the gospel of the Kingdom?
Matthew 4:23
Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.
When you are preaching the gospel of the Kingdom there is always a balance; you preach it and you demonstrate it...
Mark 16:17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Now why does religion fight so hard against this message...?
1. Religion is a substitute for the Kingdom of God
2. Religion is a bondage, big business, etc(you get the point).
This is what Jesus says to religious people:
Matthew 23:13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
And this is following verse explains what is probably happening to you right now…
Matthew 13:19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not (fully) understand it, the Evil One (Satan himself) comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.
God Bless Me!
I shall have a great day!
Maurys,
you said: "So I guess you believe in God but you do not believe God."
Is that some kind of Buddhist koan that can't be understood?
Barring you personal attacks, I think I agree completely with all the things you said about the kingdom. I agree that the kingdom was the point of Jesus' message. Did you even read my post and my comments here?
I can't tell if you are trying to agree with me or criticize me?
Are you going to come here and make a case for taking the symbolism in the book of Revelation literally? Lamb, king, beast, etc. Really?
You've avoided my question. Is Jesus a literal lamb? Did he have wool?
Hey Mike,
What I meant by...
"So I guess you believe in God but you do not believe God." was that while you are looking for a crown for me it is enough that God said it in his word to believe it, I understand what the Holy Spirit means when he referred to Jesus as the Lamb of God.
And about the Revelations text I picked that randomly, I was just looking for a verse where it says that Jesus is a King and that should be enough to prove that He is King.
Numb 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
"Where is he kinging from" dude read your bible man.
"Does he have a literal crown, a literal thrown?" Well yes, read the book of Ezekiel.
Let me know if you need the verses, I can look them up.
I noticed some comments on theology earlier on and my opinion on it is that Theologians that have not experienced (continuously) the power of God are somewhat lost, that's why there are so many that sound very smart but run away and hide when demons are manifested in other words are ineffective.
So basically when you move in the power and anointing of God the Bible takes on a different meaning (or becomes clearer to you), especially because the Holy Spirit will break down the verses and explain them to you with detail as He wishes.
Well I got to go, I’m not attacking, just commenting, let me know what you think…
God Bless me!
Maurys,
It seems you are taking a stance like none I've ever seen. I've not known anyone (even Jerry Falwell) who takes ALL biblical metaphors literally. Normally fundamnetalists pick and choose. At least you get points for being consistent.
Do you think the reason God got so mad at Moses for striking that rock to produce water was simply because God is LITERALLY a rock? I mean, the bible says clearly dozens of times that God is a "rock" so I guess he was protecting his own kind.
Hey Mike,
Can I get back to you on that later? Can you also give me couple of verses so that I don't have to look them up? I am a little busy
Thanks,
Uses of the rock metaphor in biblical texts...
Genesis 49:24
Deuteronomy 32:15
Deuteronomy 32:18
Deuteronomy 32:30
Deuteronomy 32:31
1 Samuel 2:2
2 Samuel 22:2
2 Samuel 22:32
2 Samuel 23:3
Psalm 18:2
Psalm 18:31
Psalm 18:46
Psalm 28:1
Psalm 40:2
Psalm 42:9
(almost every other chapter in Psalm uses the metaphor of "rock" for God)
Isaiah 17:10
Isaiah 26:4
Habakkuk 1:12
Matthew 7:24 & 25
1 Corinthians 10:4
I'll ignore all of these because of the nature of the Hebrew language...
Genesis 49:24
Deuteronomy 32:15
Deuteronomy 32:18
Deuteronomy 32:30
Deuteronomy 32:31
1 Samuel 2:2
2 Samuel 22:2
2 Samuel 22:32
2 Samuel 23:3
Psalm 18:2
Psalm 18:31
Psalm 18:46
Psalm 28:1
Psalm 40:2
Psalm 42:9
(almost every other chapter in Psalm uses the metaphor of "rock" for God)
Isaiah 17:10
Isaiah 26:4
Habakkuk 1:12
This one here is self explanatory... Did you actually read it?
Matthew 7 :24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Now let’s look 1Corinthians 10:4
And they all drank the same spiritual (supernaturally given) drink. For they drank from a spiritual Rock which followed them [produced by the sole power of God Himself without natural instrumentality], and the Rock was Christ.
Here all that Paul is saying is that that Rock was Christ, not that God is a rock. This is just one of the many times that we see Jesus in the Old Testament.
Now notice what God said and what Moses did...
7 And Jehovah said to Moses, 8 "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. "Speak" to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
9 So Moses took the staff from Jehovah's presence, just as he commanded him. 10 He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must "we" bring you water out of this rock?" 11 Then Moses raised his arm and “struck” the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.
And here is why He killed Moses and Aaron...
12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them."
Some people say that since that rock was Christ He did not need to be smitten, crucified, again. To smite the rock twice was to imply that Christ's death on the cross was not effectual or sufficient for time and eternity; but Moses didn't know that any ways so I don’t agree with this point of view.
Remember that most of the times you see the rock metaphor in the Old Testament, somebody else is saying it, not God.
Names are given in the Hebrew language to represent the function of what is being named. For example...Jehovah Jireh, El Shaddai, Jehovah Nisi, Jehovah Raca, El Eloin, etc. Hope you get the point.
Now look at Mark 15:2 "Are you the king of the Jews?" asked Pilate.
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.
This statement "Yes, it is as you say" when you go to the original Greek it shows the same statement that we use to say "you bet I am!"
And because the word of God commands it [Mat.7:6 Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs] let's keep the conversation smart and refrain from pointless questions with obvious answers.
God Bless Me!
oops!
"And here is why He killed Moses and Aaron"
Sorry this was just Moses, Aaron gave permission to the Israelites to build an idol.
Did you really mean to say you would "Ignore them because of the nature of the Hebrew language?"
My point is not silly. It is that the bible's writers used metaphorical words to describe BOTH God and Jesus. You can add Israel, the world, Caesar (the beast), and just about everything else to that.
The point is that the Bible's method of communication is metaphor. It is just how these people (and most people still today) write about abstract things like love, God, joy, pain, death, etc.
you said:"let's keep the conversation smart and refrain from pointless questions with obvious answers"
I'd love to. Let me know when you are ready to take the metaphor of "kingdom" seriously instead of simply literally. I think that then we can find some common ground and talk about how to make the kingdom a reality.
Hey Mike,
How you doing?
I really do not have enough time to go through all of those verses. I understand your point of view on the metaphors and whatever else you've mentioned.
The problems is that you have a much deeper understanding of the Bible when the Holy Spirit Reveals it to you and it is very easy to take a lot of it literally when you are actually living it.
Should you have any doubts on anything about the word of God, ask God(you should be a temple of the Holy Spirit), you can ask him where is his kingdom and if it is for real and how do you make His Kingdom come.
Remember that Jesus talking about the Kingdom, even thou somebody had to write it, those were Jesus' actual words.
Got to go... hope you get the point!
*****Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near****
Repent does not mean to walk to the front at church and say a prayer....Look it up ( that's another subject)
Hey Mike,
I now realize what you where talking about. God lead me to this verse...
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
and this showed me what you were trying to say...
God Bless Me!
Maurys M.,
I'm glad you found a verse that understood me better than me.
Please don't leave us in suspense. What did the Lord tell you that I was trying to say?
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